Also, while I am at it, TCM is also airing 'Perfect Strangers' (87 Minutes) next Wednesday, July 21st, at 10:00 Eastern Time... it is notable if only for the fact that Ginger is again paired with Dennis Morgan, who was the King of all goofballs as Wyn Stafford in 'Kitty Foyle'...will he fare better this time around? Wait and see...
Well, after that, we do not get another GingerFilm until August 31st (Traveling Saleslady)... and the schedule is pretty sparse on into October... well, maybe things will pick up before the end of the year... It should be noted that TCM did not show ANY Ginger movies yesterday, but at least showed some Barbara Stanwyck films, which is fine, since it was her birthday, also... BUT, would have been nice to do a 'Ginger-Barbara mix', tho, donchathink??? As for NEXT year, Ginger's Centennial, TCM BETTER be 'Wall-toWall' GingerFilms on 7/16/11, lest I have to go have a little chat with Ted and Rob... I feel pretty sure they will deliver, tho... Rob is a pretty big Ginger fan, from what I have heard, so should be in the bank, right?
Hope the weekend has been a good one for all, and you got a few Ginger movies in here and there for her birthday celebration... I watched "Tom, Dick and Harry" with my daughter, who loves that one, and also watched the bulk of "Follow the Fleet"with my mom (she is obsessed with that one!) ...trying to figure out another one to watch...sometimes it is REALLY tough to pick a random one out... I need to watch 'Heartbeat' again...didn't really get a good handle on the plot...typically, the 'first screening' of a Ginger movie finds Huey just fixating on what Ginger is up to, and generally disregarding the rest... well, honestly, it doesn't get much different upon subsequent viewings, but maybe enough to get the jist of the plot...
ANYWAY, hope any folks who haven't seen the movies mentioned above can catch them... both are worth the effort!
Y'all Keep It Gingery now, y'hear???
VKMfan
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thanks for the heads up. luckily i own both! hmmm one more Ginger-flick for Huey to watch. I know you recently watched Lady In the Dark. How about The Major and the Minor? How about Roxie? Its kind of sequential after Tom Dick and Harry I think.
ReplyDeleteKeepin it Gingery in FL
PG SG
Or you could take a Ginger-break (a short one) and watch some Remember WENN and tell me what you think!
ReplyDeleteWell, I need to go back and check out some of the 'lesser known' films, like Heartbeat, Mag Doll, and some of the earlier stuff...
ReplyDeleteThanks for reminding me of Remember WENN... I need to go snag some more of those!
Hope ya keepin it Gingery cool in the F.L.A.!!!
VKMfan
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Wait a minute: Is that a real Ginger with Texas Navy Battleship photo? Or was it just one of those shots to promote "Follow the Fleet"? But I love-love-love this photo anyway!
ReplyDeleteI was debating wheter it was Follow the Fleet or Upper World because she didnt wear white in Follow the Fleet. But I guess she didnt have the who outfit in Upper World. She borrowed the hat from that guy after she fell in the water. But Im guessing youre right and it was taken for FTF. Yeah get on Remember WENN. Fioraon has already watched 11!
ReplyDeleteOkay so I have question. I was going through the rating of Ginger's movies on DirecTV and they rated Follw the Fleet as 4 1/2 out of 5 stars, but they gave Swing Time only 4 stars. Would any of you agree with this assessment? There were only two of the G&F movies that made 5 stars.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Huey! Get with it. Remember WENN is a great show! I just downloaded some OTR and it will be fun to listen to it from the perspective of Remember WENN.
ReplyDeleteDesarae -- I'm a bit biased but I would definitely give Swing Time 5 stars. All three dances were absolutely superb with Never Gonna Dance being divine. The music was GREAT, Ginger looked G-R-E-A-T. The script -- well the script is about the same as all of them. The enjoyment factor of Swing Time is what matters, so as far as I'm concerned this one is the pinnacle of their movies together. Top Hat and Follow the Fleet are barely a sliver below it but not quite on the same level. It's hard to even rate them because I like them all. Well, it wasn't nice to kill off Fred in the one, so that sinks a bit lower than the rest. :) Which ones did they rate a 5? I tried to find it and couldn't.
Fioraon---I would agree, I believe Swing Time is definitely a 5. They gave The Gay Divorcee and Top Hat 5 stars, Follow the Fleet 4 1/2, and all the other G&F movies 4 stars.
ReplyDeleteThe main reason I went looking at the ratings on these musicals was because I was noticing that some of the MGM musicals I was watching were getting 5 stars, and some of those movies really didn't deserve that high of a rating. It got me to thinking what would Ginger and Fred's movies look like if they had all been made at MGM, and if they would be judged differently by today's audience? If anyone has seen Best Foot Forward with Lucille Ball, this was rated as 4 1/2 stars, and was a big MGM production. Now, I thoroughly enjoy Best Foot Forward and Lucy was marvelous in that movie, but overall it is by no means a better movie than Swing Time in my opinion. I am just really trying to understand how the majority of the G&F movies are getting a lower rating than movies that aren't really up to their caliber?
Ginger is with you girls: SWING TIME was her favorite of all Fred & Ginger films. She said it herself, in her book. Well she liked to work with Stevens and I can understand that. Jean said about Stevens: "... kind of like the best of cup of coffee you ever had." - No wonder: "The Talk of the Town" ... "The More the Merrier" ...
ReplyDeleteOther question: What might "Follow the Fleet" look like if it was directed by Stevens? I'm afraid Sandrich spoiled something - being eager to make Ginger feel bad, instead of encouraging her. He must have been a little touched in the head, acting like this for years. He didn't do his job properly and I think they should have sent him home.
Yes, maybe Desarae: Maybe at M.G.M. they would've recognized such a problem. In some companies the will to make really good films seems to be a bit underdeveloped. I'd count COLUMBIA into those. Steven agreed to make three films for COLUMBIA only after the studio had promised, not to interfere with him.
Well, I love "Follow the Fleet", because it contains a Ginger solo-tap specialty and the marvelous song "Let Yourself Go": It's not only Ginger - I love girl-trios too and those three girls made Ginger even look and sound better.
"The Gay Divorcée" is a charming little film, very cute indeed. But it's definitely not high standard. I have the feeling Ginger was still learning to dance in those days. But she learned quick from Fred and Hermes Pan. Comparing "The Gay Divorcée" to "Swing Time" I'd say she did. There is a very good female dancer in "The Gay Divorcée". We see her in the number "Let's Knock Knees". I have no idea who that blonde girl is.
...I will try to get caught up with WENN, y'all... if anyone else out there is interested in that, please reply - SG or Fioraon can hook you up with it - 'Remember WENN' is a cool AMC tv show (back when AMC was cool) from the late 80s or early 90s that is situated in an old 40's radio station... it's pretty dang cool, even tho I've only seen ONE episode...
ReplyDeletewow...y'all have stirred up quite the debate! It's hard to go against Swing Time, if for anything, that WAS Ginger's fav... but I also like 'Shall We Dance'...'Follow The Fleet' is great, but the ones with 'dual couples' are just a bit 'less' overall, since it's less GandF...'Roberta' is this way, also... still both great, mind you... just not as focused on the 'primary draws', as it were...
As for 'ratings', that's kind of tough...wonder if those dudes really compared one GandF to the other... or to other musicals. I mean, 'Singing In The Rain' is killer, to be sure, but how can you compare it to 'Top Hat'? Two totally different 'vibes', to me...
As for the best GandF, it's tough...each one has its own 'merit'... heck, I'd just as soon watch 'Barkleys' as any of them...Ginger is a bit older, but I am pretty fond of the 'middle aged' Ginger, so no issues there...
maybe it's time for another 'general poll'...which GandF is the BEST? It's been done before, but...
CS - That blonde singer/dancer 'knocking knees' with EEH in 'Divorcee'? None other than a very young Betty Grable.
Y'all KIG now, y'hear?
VKMfan
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CS -- That's a good question about Follow the Fleet. I was finishing up watching it today, and the "All My Eggs in One Basket" number was on, and I found myself becoming increasingly annoyed that I couldn't see Ginger's face for half of the song. It is like that everytime I watch that movie, makes you want to tar and feather Sandrich! I wonder if it annoyed him that there was no way around Ginger being the center of the storyline for Carefree. There was no way for him to change a shot and take her out of it, because that would have completely thrown off the whole movie.
ReplyDeleteNow, I have been using Swing Time as an example because I love the overall direction of the movie, but to try to narrow down my favorite of the G&F movies would be impossible :) Huey, like you said, each one is good for its own reason. Even trying to narrow it down to a top 5 is hard. I love Carefree because Ginger is hilarious in that one, but I also love Barkley's because it is like a glimpse into the "after" the happily ever after and that bathroom scene kills me (what I wouldn't give to throw a little plastic bottle of something at my husband sometimes...lol!). And all the other movies are so great choosing one is too hard. But I do get what you are saying Huey when you ask whether the movies are compared to one another or to other musicals. If they are compared to one another, are The Gay Divorcee and Top Hat the two BEST G&F films out of the ten? Their ratings essentially say that all the other G&F films are about the same, good but not great. When I saw that I just found it kind of surprising that only two made the 5 star rating, and that ones that most fans think are GREAT received just 4 stars. I was very happy that most of Ginger's solo movies received high ratings though :)
My old whirlybird is mothballed again. That means my notebook is repaired. It's like kind of Independence Day to me.
ReplyDeleteThanks Huey! I heard the name Betty Grable several times, but I never knew who she was. Wikipedia says she was also one of the girls in the girl-trio in "Let Yourself Go". WOW, Ginger is mighty boosted by that background! And she knows to use this opportunity and sounds swell. Here we can see what she could realy do, if things were set properly.
Desarae, anyway I consider the string accompaniment a disturbance in "All My Eggs in One Basket". This is a happy song and Ginger always did this kind of songs most funnily - but not with that orchestration. So I wonder whether Sandrich had an influence on the arranger ... Maybe he thought Ginger's kind to sing out naive joy was ridiculous and he wanted to boycott that, by making it sound as seriously as possible. - Whatever, it wasn't a wise decision to orchestrate it that way and Ginger doesn't look very happy, while singing. The song is wonderful, but the orchestration fails it's character and it fails Ginger's style. Until they start to dance it sounds awfully uninspired - Fred's singing too. Ginger doesn't look like feeling comfortable - and of course Sandrich was no help to make her feel comfortable.
Sabotaging the leading lady means sabotaging the whole project. At war such saboteur would've faced a firing squad.
___________________
P.S.: All this reminds me very much of director Clurman and the 1954 stage production of St. Joan. He did not like the famous catch in Jean's voice and criticized her all the time. Jean finally grabbed him and shook him fiercely. But it was too late, because her nerves were already worn out. She got physically ill and had to leave the production. Fortunately Ginger had stronger nerves than Jean.
I like Let Yourself Go - its one of Ginger's only solos to sing AND the dance its when she starts holding her own in the dances!
ReplyDeleteYou're right SassyGinger: "Follow the Fleet" is Ginger's begin as a superior dancer. I didn't want to see this before. In fact this messed up my relationship to Ginger. But her star didn't fall in my heart as I had been afraid. This love is too old.
ReplyDeleteI'm still very much like Jean. And I see more and more, Ginger is totally different from me. So these are two different kind of loves which can't disturb each other.
I have great disdain towards Sandrich. Regardless of how Ginger felt about a movie, she always was 100% professional in making it and gave her all. A classic example is my favorite, Bachelor Mother. Obviously she didn't want to make that movie and had to be forced into it. Yet she was superb. Could not have been better. Sandrich however let his personal animosity towards her diminish the finished product. I have mentioned before that GIs as well as pilots of foreign countries painted "Ginger Rogers" on their airplanes or carried pictures of her for good luck. They did NOT paint Fred Astaire. Clearly we know who they were watching. Ginger was so very enjoyable to watch, and Sandrich did the audience a disservice in not filming her in more flattering light. BTW, if you haven't seen this letter Pan Berman wrote to Sandrich upon completion of Top Hat, it's worth a look. It comes from a documentary that says it's in the RKO archives...
ReplyDeletehttp://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm142/sunrise131/Screenshots/vlcsnap-131834.jpg
CS, I would say by Top Hat Ginger's dancing had greatly improved, and it's a tribute to her hard work that she could go from never having done this type of dancing on screen to this level accomplishment. Sure, there were flaws in the first 3 and she was learning. But nevertheless the dances were most enjoyable. I have a real soft spot for the dances in Roberta because more than any other movie the pair made, in this one they seemed to have the most fun. Hard to Handle is just wonderful - not in skill but in the awesome chemistry they enjoyed. The fact that Ginger's laugh was picked up on the soundtrack in two parts says it all. If ever I want to feel good, I watch that dance. Thankfully no Sandrich to sabotage that one.
Oh Fioraon, this is doing me so good what you're telling. Sometimes I really suffer with Ginger and Jean; at other times I get sooo mad ... There are three 'red rags' before my eyes: Cohen, Sandrich and Clurman - if I hear the name of any of them I attack like a raging bull. Sometimes I feel I'm overdoing, but I can't help it. Your words may help me to calm a bit down.
ReplyDeletewww.from-RKO-archives.jpg
Thanks, I'll see into this!
Ha! I bought "Bachelor Mother" today. Because all you fellows always praised it. I'm worrying about "Roberta": had ordered it and it's not coming over as soon as it should. So I can't say anything about Ginger's dancing in it. I need "Roberta" also because of Irene Dunne's superb singing.
You're right Fioraon, in "Top Hat" Ginger shows already much more dancing skills than ever before. But "Let Yourself Go" is so important to me, because I need to watch soloists. I always had hoped, Ginger had done solos before "Follow the Fleet", but this is obviously her beginning as soloist. During the last weeks I had to face the truth and I'm beginning to accept this.
"Roberta" again - without having seen it: I read they filmed and recored pictures and sound at the same time, without adding anything later. So this was life recording and they had all the athmo in the final mix. This is actually the best way, because it looks and sounds naturally. Ginger's laughing certainly was part of the athmo-sound. I'm looking forward "Roberta" and hope it will come over soon ...
No Sandrich ... † † †
Another point: As Ginger became more and more famous, she surely had to do more life performances. This must have been boosting her skills very much. You know what I mean, things like "An Evening with Miss Ginger Rogers."
ReplyDeleteI've just seen Bachelor Mother and find it very cute. Oh yeah, the Ginger without Fred shows the whole Ginger in the Ginger. David Niven isn't so very dominant - she's dominating the film completely and that's just what I want.
ReplyDeleteSo now I understand why so many Gingerologists went into rhapsodies about this on Mother's Day: Yes, Ginger's definitely an extremely cute mother.
___________________
P.S.: They shouldn't have colorized the film. It weakened the picture sharpness.
Just wanted to tell you sweetie that what you said on my blog today really touched my heart. You have no idea how much comments like that mean to me. I even shared it with my dad and he couldn't believe I had such a wonderful blogger friend. You are such a special person and I wanted to make sure you knew it. God bless. Kori xoxo
ReplyDeleteI just saw Lela and I was so happy, I could cry. Adore her very much – the dearest mother in the world to me. All you Gingerologist certainly know which film it was, if I say: Lela plays the role of Ginger's mother, like in reality. Very cute flim, I bought it too yesterday. --- Now something I wrote before the film. My mood is completely different now, but here we go:
ReplyDelete_______________________________________
Marvelous, Fioraon! Where did you find that most enlightening letter from Pan Berman to Mark Sandrich?
www.from-RKO-archives.jpg
"... The bottom line is that we must make every effort to treat Ms. Rogers with utmost respect. She is one half of the reason we're selling out seats in theaters across the co(u)ntry. ..."
Ha, Pan Berman just wasted his time.
Berman wrote another letter to Sandrich, on the same issue (page 237 in her book). It was during the shooting of Carefree. But obviously Sandrich didn't pay a darn – kind of the 7 plagues of Hollywood that man. Writing one letter after another doesn't help, they should have fired him. Ginger says she was not the type who enjoyed to fight. Why, all she needed to say was „no“ and go: 24 hours at the set is impossible - this was only to bully her! Jean Arthur had a passage in her contract, that she didn't had to work after 5 pm, because she felt tired then. Trying to bully her was the last thing they could dare, because she was difficult anyway. Sometimes it's quite useful to be difficult. I wonder why Ginger's tough mother didn't taught this her daughter. But maybe this didn't help, because Ginger had a different nature. Very peaceful – sometimes too peaceful.
Sandrich's objection against the feather-dress in TOP HAT was ridiculous. To use a dress that had been used in a film project before would have been most amateur-film-like!! Ginger was right during the shooting of TOP HAT! His vanity was wounded, that's all. Because he felt he was always right, because he was a director and because he was male. And he couldn't forgive Ginger, although he must have known very well he was wrong.
Blondie (Kori) - I am honored to be a follower of Blonde Episodes! You are an awesome blogger, and a very special lady, too! I am so glad to hear you are doing better... and thanks so much for inspiring me in the Gingerology blog! KIG!
ReplyDeleteNow, as for all you other G-ologists out there... check out the latest post... been running this thru my head the last few days regarding Mr. Sandrich, so hopefully y'all can 'resume' the discussion on that post! Not that I am 'shutting down' talks on THIS one, mind you... :-]
Thanks - VKMfan
CS aka Clarissa -- I take it you bought the combo dvd of Bachelor Mother/Major and Minor. I think if I remember correctly that's only available in England. I had looked at that on amazon.uk and saw Bachelor Mother is the colorized version. I agree that I'd prefer it in black and white, but since I already have that I wouldn't mind a colorized 2nd copy.
ReplyDeleteIn regard to the dress from Gay Divorcee being substituted for the feather dress, that is so absurd. Not a single woman or critic who saw Gay Divorcee and then Top Hat would have missed it being the same dress. And from what Ginger said in her autobio, the dress wasn't well kept either. Sandrich would never have disrespected Fred in this manner. Ginger would have been badly panned for wearing it, and she rightly held her ground.
The letter you asked about is shown in a documentary entitled Astaire and Rogers: Partners in Rhythm. It's an extra in a couple of different boxsets of the Astaire-Rogers collections. There is also a very good 6 part documentary entitled Hollywood the Golden Years: The RKO Story. It aired on BBC in 1987 and was repeated again in 2009. The following is a summary of the six episodes...
Episode 1 - Birth of a Titan
It includes sections on the making of King Kong and Cimarron. There are interviews with Katharine Hepburn, Ray Harryhausen, Gene Raymond and Fay Wray together with many more from behind the scenes.
Episode 2 - Let's Face the Music and Dance
Part two looks at the Fred & Ginger films. It also includes some rare items with a dance clip never used and a colour rehearsal session. There are interviews with Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers together with many more from behind the scenes. The interview with Fred is the last filmed interview he gave.
Episode 3 - A Woman's Lot
Part Three traces the films made at RKO for and by women, concentrating on the careers of Ginger Rogers and Katharine Hepburn. It includes interviews with them and also Douglas Fairbanks Jr and Lucille Ball.
Episode 4 - It's All True
Part Four looks at Orson Welles who spent a hectic few years at RKO, making Citizen Kane, The Magnificent Ambersons and the abandoned It's All True.
Episode 5 - Dark Victory
The 1950s were a time of mounting paranoia, reflected by the studio's ventures into film noir. Robert Mitchum makes his first screen appearance, Val Lewton creates Zombies and Cat People, and the House of Un-American Activities Committee stalks its prey. Includes interviews with Ginger Rogers, John Houseman, Robert Mitchum and Jane Greer
Episode 6 - Howard's Way
It concludes as Howard Hughes' purchase of RKO has a devastating effect on the studio. Includes interviews with Robert Mitchum, Jane Russell, Jane Greer, Joan Fontaine, Janet Leigh, Jean Simmons, Stewart Granger, Ginger Rogers and Lucille Ball
Obviously the two copies that were of great interest to me were Ep 2 & 3. I uploaded all 6 eps. to rapidshare, which is a straight download, and if anyone is interested in downloading a copy, let me know.
Note: In regard to the above documentary, my copies are in avi file format, and after download, they have to be extracted. It's easy to do, and I can help anyone who has a problem.
ReplyDeleteFioraon, a whole movie in avi must be several gigabyte - if not terrabyte!
ReplyDeleteThe certain lady at my seller seems to get almost anything - she even orders in Asia and Australia and it seems she always knows where to get something. I'm still waiting for a few films coming from Spain - it takes an awful lot of time from there ...
I never copied a DVD. Besides I go online via UTMS-stick, with a small netbook. Such awfully huge files wouldn't just work.
"CS aka Clarissa --" ??? Why in heavens name are you doing that, Fioraon?
Fioraon said...
ReplyDeleteNot a single woman or critic who saw Gay Divorcee and then Top Hat would have missed it being the same dress.
Let me just say, Sandrich tried to misuse an expensive movie production to bully Ginger. That IS sabotage.
"CS aka Clarissa --" ??? Why in heavens name are you doing that, Fioraon?
ReplyDeleteI guess I'm transitioning into Clarissa so as not to repeat the same mistake.
Each of the documentary episodes (that is avi files) is about 480MB in size. So the most interesting parts (2 and 3) would total about 1GB. All 6 parts would be about 2.8GB. I'm afraid the term UTMS-stick is foreign to me. Anyway, I just tossed the info on this documentary out in case anyone was interested.
Fioraon, you're cute. "CS aka Clarissa" is even longer as if you would write "Clarissa Smith". My theory is, you're just trying to be just: It's either SG and CS, or Sassy and Clarissa. That's the only explanation I can find.
ReplyDeleteBut what are we're going to do about the colorized version of "Bachelor Mother"? Shall I present you an e-mail address, so we can talk that over? I might be able to order that video and send you via UPS or so ...
It seems UMTS is kind of foreign to me too (I jumbled M and T up!). The only thing I know is, that it works like a cellphone, connected via USB to a computer. And then you can go online. That's all I know.
ReplyDeleteFioraon, the stuff you presented above, sounds very interesting, although too much for me at one time. I bought "It Had to be You" and "Carefree" today. Saw the first one already and miss Sue Applegate very much. But maybe I get used to it ...
Clarissa -- See, I've already completed the transition. I had one intermediary step, and now CS is gone! :)
ReplyDeleteOh, thanks regarding the Bachelor Mother. Tomorrow a buddy is flying to England for a vacation, and he hopes to pick up a copy which he plans to "share" with me. For me it's really the curiosity factor as I much prefer these classics in black and white and wouldn't pay for a colored version.
What is gone? Never heard of such a thing. Or do you mean just this?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.CS.xxl
Sorry; I didn't mean to be confusing. I meant I made the transition in addressing you to "Clarissa" and hereinafter I won't use "CS" to refer to you. That's what I meant by CS being gone.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't confused. As I said, I found it most cute. I like goblins. :)
ReplyDeleteFioraon, I hope you know I was just kidding.
ReplyDeleteI don't know you, just considered your transition-'game' a bit goblin-like. I have funny ideas like that myself, so I'm a goblin myself.
Jean Arthur was called a goblin by her friends and I really like that.